Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

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J Hrlec
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:17 pm

Re: Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

Postby J Hrlec » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:39 pm

Tim Liston wrote:Does this mean that our elected officials should make decisions that reflect the will of the majority of his/her constituents?


:arrow: Yes, the high majority of the time.

Tim Liston wrote:Because very often what folks want, and what is really for the best, are quite different things. That’s where the personal opinion of an official becomes very important.


Should single opinion ever be the factor how "what is best" is decided? :?:

If not majority, should not facts / figures and calcualtions be the deciding factor?


Scott Meeson
Posts: 353
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Re: Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

Postby Scott Meeson » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:37 pm

Peter Grossetti wrote:Scott - Fair question. I'll look into it.
But while you are at it, ask the same question of:

Board of Building Standards /Architectural Board of Review / Sign Review
http://onelakewood.com/Boards_Commissions/BuildingStandards.aspx#

Lakewood Audit Committee
http://onelakewood.com/Boards_Commissio ... ittee.aspx

Citizens Advisory Committee
http://onelakewood.com/Boards_Commissio ... isory.aspx

Civil Service Commission
http://onelakewood.com/Boards_Commissio ... rvice.aspx

Fair Employment Wage Board
http://onelakewood.com/Boards_Commissio ... tWage.aspx

Loan Approval Board for the Division of Community Development
http://onelakewood.com/Boards_Commissio ... roval.aspx

Planning Commission
http://onelakewood.com/Boards_Commissio ... ssion.aspx

Board of Zoning Appeals
http://onelakewood.com/Boards_Commissio ... peals.aspx


Peter,

Do they have anything to do with the subject of this thread?

Scott


If you would understand anything, observe its beginning and its development.
- Aristotle
Peter Grossetti
Posts: 1520
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:43 pm

Re: Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

Postby Peter Grossetti » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:48 pm

Scott - everything (IMHO)!

btw, I just found out ... May and July LASWAB minutes were sent to Clerk of Council (who is the person who post them for us ... as LASWAB does not have access to posting on onelakewood.org) some time ago. September minutes have been been typed up yet (same with November).


"So, let's make the most of this beautiful day.
Since we're together we might as well say:
Would you be mine? Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?"

~ Fred (Mr. Rogers) Rogers
Peter Grossetti
Posts: 1520
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:43 pm

Re: Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

Postby Peter Grossetti » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:19 pm

@Scott - Great to meet you this evening!

Observation Deck = friend builder!! :D


"So, let's make the most of this beautiful day.
Since we're together we might as well say:
Would you be mine? Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?"

~ Fred (Mr. Rogers) Rogers
Betsy Voinovich
Posts: 1226
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:53 am

Re: Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

Postby Betsy Voinovich » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:43 pm

Hi Peter and Scott,

I was unable to attend tonight's meeting. From what I have heard, the mayor did not make the exemptions that would allow the pilot program for chickens in Lakewood to happen tonight. The mayor was also not stripped of his exemption powers tonight but that issue is under further review...

Can one of you guys who was there come on and fill in some more details?

Thanks.

Betsy Voinovich


Peter Grossetti
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:43 pm

Re: Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

Postby Peter Grossetti » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:28 pm

Betsy - Bottom line is this ... because Ord 51-11 was not voted on this evening, but rather sent to Committee of the Whole, Hizzoner still has the legal authority to grant the exemption to the three pilot families. Last week he did tell them that he would.

Mayor Summer now has a seminal decision to make ... one that I believe could shape the remainder of his term. He does one of two things:

1.) He sits down at his desk Tuesday morning, signs those exemption letters, keeps his word to those three families and puts them in the mail ... and by doing so he maintains credibility/honor and sends quite a message to Council. I won't say what that message is ... but let me draw you a picture:

........................./´¯/)
......................,/¯..//
...................../..../ /
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´(..´......,~/'...')
.........\.................\/..../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\


2.) He does NOT send the letters to the three families ... and by doing so loses credibility/honor and present the illusion that this was a well-choreographed charade in cahoots with council and sends quite a message to Citizens Committee for Hens in Lakewood. I won't say what that message is ... but let me draw you a picture:

........................./´¯/)
......................,/¯..//
...................../..../ /
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´(..´......,~/'...')
.........\.................\/..../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\

Perhaps that is a simplistic summary (and I truly don't mean to make light of the situation), but you just KNOW that SOMEONE is going to feel this way! I don't envy the position Mayor Summers is in right now. I wish him strength and courage.


"So, let's make the most of this beautiful day.
Since we're together we might as well say:
Would you be mine? Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?"

~ Fred (Mr. Rogers) Rogers
Cherise Sims
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:31 pm

Re: Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

Postby Cherise Sims » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:39 pm

Peter Grossetti wrote:Betsy - Bottom line is this ... because Ord 51-11 was not voted on this evening, but rather sent to Committee of the Whole, Hizzoner still has the legal authority to grant the exemption to the three pilot families. Last week he did tell them that he would.

Mayor Summer now has a seminal decision to make ... one that I believe could shape the remainder of his term. He does one of two things:

1.) He sits down at his desk Tuesday morning, signs those exemption letters, keeps his word to those three families and puts them in the mail ... and by doing so he maintains credibility/honor and sends quite a message to Council. I won't say what that message is ... but let me draw you a picture:

........................./´¯/)
......................,/¯..//
...................../..../ /
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´(..´......,~/'...')
.........\.................\/..../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\


2.) He does NOT send the letters to the three families ... and by doing so loses credibility/honor and present the illusion that this was a well-choreographed charade in cahoots with council and sends quite a message to Citizens Committee for Hens in Lakewood. I won't say what that message is ... but let me draw you a picture:

........................./´¯/)
......................,/¯..//
...................../..../ /
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´(..´......,~/'...')
.........\.................\/..../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\

Perhaps that is a simplistic summary (and I truly don't mean to make light of the situation), but you just KNOW that SOMEONE is going to feel this way! I don't envy the position Mayor Summers is in right now. I wish him strength and courage.


I could not have said it better myself actually. Or drawn it better I suppose? I am hoping to get my letter, as I think giving your word a look in the eye and a handshake should mean something.


Peter Grossetti
Posts: 1520
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:43 pm

Re: Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

Postby Peter Grossetti » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:40 pm

btw .. I would LOVE to hear other options, because those are the only two I could think of.


"So, let's make the most of this beautiful day.
Since we're together we might as well say:
Would you be mine? Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?"

~ Fred (Mr. Rogers) Rogers
Ann Stahlheber
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:34 am

Re: Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

Postby Ann Stahlheber » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:55 pm

Thanks everyone for the supportive discussion. It seems that our council people have trailed off in the follow up discussion. One thing that Betsy pointed out is that she felt that the mayor was acting on his opinion. I know she mentioned that she couldn't attend the meeting, and I believe the Mayor cleared that up at the meeting. He stated that prior to meeting with the three pilot families to discuss this issue, he had his doubts too. Honestly, it is a new idea for many. But through meeting with the prospective hen keepers, reading their proposals, research, he decided to use his legal authority (which the council re-affirmed in July) to grant the pilot project happen, to see if (in Reese's words) perceptions are reality or myth. So I don't believe that the Mayor was using his own personal opinion. He was presented with the almost 400 person petition, letters of support from local veterinarians, business owners, organizations, and of course the recommendation from David Anderson on behalf of the Animal Welfare Board. He used this information to determine that a pilot project is worth a try, and well within his power.
Some members of council began complaining that the mayor was overstepping his power, because it seems that they are the ones with the pre-conceived negative attitude toward hen keeping. There was not one single call in to the Mayor's office to complain about the exemption between last Monday and this Monday. It seems that Councilman Powers introduced emergency legislation based on his (and other council members) own opinions of what they think the mayor has the right to do, because they didn't think that hen-keeping was right for Lakewood. To the contrary, the council received dozens of emails and calls in favor of the exemptions.

Let the pilot happen Mayor Summers!! Let this well planned approach play out in the pilot families backyards.


Ann Stahlheber M.S. R.D. L.D. C.S.N.
Peter Grossetti
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:43 pm

Re: Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

Postby Peter Grossetti » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:14 pm

Still. .. not a peep from 12650 Detroit Avenue! :(


"So, let's make the most of this beautiful day.
Since we're together we might as well say:
Would you be mine? Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?"

~ Fred (Mr. Rogers) Rogers
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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:33 am

It’s important to realize that whenever you give power to politicians or bureaucrats, it will be used for what they want, not for what you want. - Harry Browne



.


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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marklingm
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Re: Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

Postby marklingm » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:56 am

Jim O'Bryan wrote:It’s important to realize that whenever you give power to politicians or bureaucrats, it will be used for what they want, not for what you want. - Harry Browne.


Not always, Jim.

There might be Bike Nights at Lakewood’s Quaker Steak & Lube®.

See, e.g., http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8777.


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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:07 pm

Matthew John Markling wrote:
Jim O'Bryan wrote:It’s important to realize that whenever you give power to politicians or bureaucrats, it will be used for what they want, not for what you want. - Harry Browne.


Not always, Jim.

There might be Bike Nights at Lakewood’s Quaker Steak & Lube®.

See, e.g., http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8777.


Matt

I have to think that is merely a case of your dreams coinciding with their dreams. I never
saw the poll which asked about Quaker Sate or for a young woman once a week to make
$200 over 20 other young women by getting wet and naked.

Of course I could be wrong, I generally do not take polls.

.


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
J Hrlec
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:17 pm

Re: Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

Postby J Hrlec » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:09 pm

Jim O'Bryan wrote: or for a young woman once a week to make
$200 over 20 other young women by getting wet and naked.


I think this may involve another completely different type of "pole"

:wink:


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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Chickens Legal In Lakewood...

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:10 pm

J Hrlec wrote:
Jim O'Bryan wrote: or for a young woman once a week to make
$200 over 20 other young women by getting wet and naked.


I think this may involve another completely different type of "pole"

:wink:


While I appreciate the humor, I really think it comes down to the kind of poll the Donner Party
would take everyday.

.


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama

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