Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will close

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Will Brown
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Re: Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will clo

Postby Will Brown » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:17 am

I think it is very important that we educate our children.

But I am not convinced that the government should be doing the educating, for a number of reasons.

First, it is hard to think of any government institution that is at all efficient, and that goes to the heart of this thread. People are concerned with the huge amount of money we are putting into public education, and some think we could do better by shutting the public schools and issuing vouchers. Of course, the cost of private schools is also escalating, but they have to try to be more efficient and hold down costs to attract students. And there are certainly poor private schools, but there are also excellent ones, and a caring parent would be able to avoid the poor ones. Just one example of inefficiency: we cling to the outmoded rural model of schooling, where our buildings go unused for a quarter of the year so our children can help with the crops?

Another argument against public schools are that they are very much instruments of propaganda, teaching what the government wants. If you deal with people from around the world, you soon realize that what you were taught in the public schools can be very different from what they were taught.

Public education is a huge cabal, including politicians that receive support and money from the other members of the cabal, and do their bidding; bureaucrats who control the processes, educational universities, and employees who do the actual work. So when someone decides that we should evaluate performance of our schools, that evaluation falls to some facet of the cabal. I think it is not really reliable to have part of an organization evaluating the performance of another part. I know that children develop at different rates, so a mediocre student can develop after graduation, but my concern is that many people who are in the hiring business feel that our graduates today are not as well prepared as were those a generation ago. I'm also concerned that when our schools were considered among the best in the world a generation ago, we read now that we are falling toward third-world status. I think we should not be patting our backs about being among the best of a poor performing group. Granted, many nations that are succeeding in this field don't tolerate the freedoms that we do; often they decide which school to put the child into, and what the child will study and where he will work. I don't think we should emulate that, but at the same time I think of the endless sound bites the occupy whatever participants flooded us with, and my feeling was that those people were poorly educated to the point of being unemployable.

In short, I think we should dramatically change the structure of public education, starting the kids younger, and having them in school year round, and evaluating their and their teachers' performance in a more practical manner.


Society in every state is a blessing, but the Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil...
Stan Austin
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Re: Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will clo

Postby Stan Austin » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:58 pm

Uh Will? I think your approach pretty much defines that old cliche of "throwing the baby out with the bath water."
Stan


Gary Rice
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Re: Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will clo

Postby Gary Rice » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:06 pm

Mr. Brown,

You raise some important observations and questions. While you and I have oftentimes disagreed regarding the topic of public education, we have often had good discussions, and there are any number of points upon which we might agree.

First of all, let's have a good look at your concerns about "governments" running the schools.

Let's also be very clear here when we define our terms. Were we to speak about a national government (or for that matter, any civil government) "running" the schools, I would be in total agreement with you. When national governments control schools, education can easily be combined with indoctrination. In fact, in the American system, WE run our public schools through INDEPENDENT school boards that intentionally DO NOT SIT under the same roof as our government!

It is so ironic to me, for example, that many conservatives have called for national standards and testing mandates (which I interpret as being EVEN MORE governmental school involvement) while at the same time wanting to do away with the Department of Education. There appears to be a lack of logic there, at least to my way of thinking, but I digress here.

Many years ago, it was determined in our country that the public schools originally would function OUTSIDE of government, in order that education would be as free and independent as possible. Even today, the school board does not (theoretically) answer to the government of Lakewood, or to any other government except to the also-independent State Board of Education.

Traditionally, many if not most Americans wanted "government" NOT AT ALL INVOLVED in the educational business, whether private or public schools were involved.

A local school board USED TO have a great deal of autonomy. With the advent of Federal and State monies as well as the rules and regs that came with Supreme Court decisions, the government entered into local education. Eventually that included everything from labor relations to what got served at lunch. When WWI and WWII caught us napping, the "government" wanted gym classses. When the "government" wanted to know who the brainiest kids were, along came the mandated testing. Supposedly, national security was involved and all of that...

The end result however, was more and more governmental involvement with the local school boards.

Was this encroachment good or bad? Well, probably both, depending on the circumstances of each situation, but that's as it is today. That said, school boards still have a great deal of autonomy, at least on paper.

Is public education a "cabal"? I don't think so, simply due to the fact that each of the 50 states, and each of the local school boards are still VERY autonomous. There are too many different factors in play, ranging from differing colleges and their varying requirements, to differing standards, differing textbook, testing, and supply companies, and very little agreement as to what public education should be, or become.

I also do not for a moment believe that there is currently any situation where people feel that they need to cover each other's back regarding training, evaluations, and the like. The days of ANY educator trying to coast, or simply go through the motions while being protected by a union is long past; if indeed that sort of thing EVER existed on a large scale. (I've never seen that sort of thing) Neither administrators nor unions would want to defend truly BAD teaching practices. There's just too much at stake. There WOULD be an effort to assure rights and due process, of course, and to be sure that appropriate steps would be taken to assist deficient teaching, where needed, but were were all that to be tried, bottom line? A poor teacher would just not be around very long.

In fact, there is such a weeding-out process with teacher training in colleges nowadays as I've never seen before.

Starting kids younger in school is already happening. Particularly with the identification of special needs, as well as with early childhood education, more and more of that sort of thing is coming down the pike. Additionally, more and more students are taking advantages of summer classroom opportunites, and not for punitive reasons, but in order to compete in our increasingly technological world.

There are also more alternatives available to parents than ever, ranging from home schooling, to charter and private schools, and each of these options are viable under the right circumstances.

Bottom line, I still feel that the public schools represent the brightest hope for our country.

Mr. Brown, I do appreciate your contributions and your points. Hopefully you will at least understand, if not fully agree with my perspective.

Gary


Tim Liston
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Re: Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will clo

Postby Tim Liston » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:10 pm

Maybe I am way off base here. If so I suspect I will hear about it.

First things first, if you go back to my posts on education (and there have been several over the years) you will note that I don’t refer to “public schools.” I almost always refer to “traditional schools.” That’s because (1) most private schools model their pedagogy after public schools and those mandates, and (2) I’m not really all that interested in how they are funded, as long as they are successful. I’m way into children. I’ll help pay for education one way or another, which I do. I'm not all that into money....

So now, what constitutes educational “success?” There are a couple posts on this thread that mention “results” and the like. How do we measure that? Honestly, I think it’s pretty simple. In a nutshell, does our educational system, our pedagogy (since Sean brought it up) produce adults who….

… are good stewards of the Earth, who look out 1,000 years or more, not just the next few years (when the oil nearly runs out).

… promote healthful lifestyles, and deferred over instant gratification.

…support an honest economy based on sound money, trade and exchanges and not the deception, CDSs, MBSs and stuff that we see today.

…encourage the more fortunate among us to REALLY help the less fortunate, without (much) complaining.

…know how to build/grow things, important things. Instead of just move money around.

...encourage a political/governmental system that benefits us all and promotes long-term goals

…truly macro stuff like that

If you want humans on our Earth indefinitely, this is what education is all about. Right?

I’m not interested in conventional test results, not at all. Heck I raised two children to respect their ethical obligations to others and not obsess about traditional assessment (grades and scores). Fortunately I also made them into great goalkeepers so they are athletic and get help with college costs ;-)

I just want to make sure my great great great great great great great great great grandchildren will still be around and can support themselves. Traditional schools might spend 2% of their time and effort addressing such outcomes, and I think therefore they fail us. It should be 50% like I suspect it was 150 years ago. Sean your efforts may result in superior “results” given the existing status quo goals. I would assert that our existing goals are inappropriate and in need of huge change. So even your heroic effort are to little avail, eventually, due to inappropriate pedagogy. Sorry….


Gary Rice
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Re: Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will clo

Postby Gary Rice » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:22 pm

Tim.

I have to say that I love your post.

You know what's important in life. At least, I think so.

You walk the walk my brother, or should I say "ride the ride".

You are a legend with that bicycle, but I digress.

You also address the bottom line........outcomes.

That is the big question, is it not?

I do think, at least with the Lakewood Schools. that they try to help accomplish many of the things that you are thinking about.

There are also more alternatives available than ever for kids with learning differences, or who might not be able to learn the traditional way. Lakewood Schools even offer an academy that addresses many of those needs.

I wish that we could get you to come up to the schools to talk about your biking and healthy lifestyle changes. You are so needed.

Heroic efforts never fail... unless people stop trying.

Gary


Bill Trentel
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Re: Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will clo

Postby Bill Trentel » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:28 pm

Tim Liston wrote:So now, what constitutes educational “success?” There are a couple posts on this thread that mention “results” and the like. How do we measure that? Honestly, I think it’s pretty simple. In a nutshell, does our educational system, our pedagogy (since Sean brought it up) produce adults who….

… are good stewards of the Earth, who look out 1,000 years or more, not just the next few years (when the oil nearly runs out).

… promote healthful lifestyles, and deferred over instant gratification.

…support an honest economy based on sound money, trade and exchanges and not the deception, CDSs, MBSs and stuff that we see today.

…encourage the more fortunate among us to REALLY help the less fortunate, without (much) complaining.

…know how to build/grow things, important things. Instead of just move money around.

...encourage a political/governmental system that benefits us all and promotes long-term goals

…truly macro stuff like that

If you want humans on our Earth indefinitely, this is what education is all about. Right?



Mr. Liston,
I believe you are confusing moral teaching with classroom teaching. And we have strayed along way from the question of primary education funding. And I'm sure high morals standards are key to a successful live and society.

The problem is morals can't be taught in a classroom whether public, private or even religious. They need to be taught by the family, with a loving guiding hand, though ones entire life. You might find an educational system that more closely follows your moral beliefs but the true lessons and learning comes from the family.

Now we need to figure out how we will teacher a third grader to read, despite their moral deficiencies. And how will we fund it.

Should we privatize it? Give everyone a $10,000 dollar voucher, so that those that can pay beyond the voucher will be the only ones getting the better education. In a open market the product in demand (the good schools) will cost more.

Perhaps we can model it after our world-class health care system. If you can afford it you can have it. If you can't it must be your own fault, oh well.

Bill


Myra Beckrest
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Re: Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will clo

Postby Myra Beckrest » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:37 am

Here's the big red flag:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... tough.html

In this article today, what truly worries me is this:

Only 31 districts statewide would earn an A or A-, compared with 352 that got an "excellent with distinction" or "excellent" on the latest report card. And 52 districts would get an F, while none was in the state's lowest ranking of "academic emergency" last time.
In addition, almost 60 percent of the state's charter schools got an F in the simulation.

The change is being made so Ohio doesn't have to meet a key but ultimately unrealistic requirement of the federal No Child Left Behind law – that every student must be proficient in reading and math by 2014.


Whatever happened to the three R's? Reading, Writing, Arithmetic.

If schools are bypassing the basics how do they ever hope to be truly "successful?"


Bill Call
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Re: Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will clo

Postby Bill Call » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:24 am

Gary Rice wrote:It's funny really.

Public education detractors historically have called for more and more accountability, and as a result, our students are being tested as never before. Schools are presently being rated primarily on those tests, and in Lakewood's case, we have achieved excellent ratings academically on the basis of those tests.

Those detractors of public education have discovered that, at least in our district, they simply have nothing to "detract" about.



Any realistic analysis of Lakewood schools would show that we do not have an excellent school district. We have a district slowly descending into crisis. The district is failing students and parents on many levels The very small changes being made aren’t going to change that. To the extent that the School Board kicks the can down the road they make the situation even worse.

One item in the budget that is NEVER mentioned is the nearly $6 million paid to school board employees in early retirement buyouts. While the district is cutting educational excellence out of the budget they are paying millions in retirement bonuses. A teacher retiring under that program will collect $4 million or more in retirement benefits. Our soon to be retired treasurer will be collecting nearly $5 million in retirement benefits paid for by the people of Lakewood. That’s$9 million for two people. Where will the money come from? How much sense does it make to cut back on education so a select few can retire at 55 and sit at home for 30 years with free hospitalization and annual cost of living increases?

We can fund education for the students of Lakewood or we can fund million dollar buyouts. We can’t do both.

I had some small hope that the LTA and Lakewood School Board would work together to provide:

An extended school day
An extended school year
An eight hour day properly supervised and properly supported
Eliminating limits on student/teacher contact
A realistic pay and benefit package

It is a forlorn hope. The recent concession regarding health insurance adds insult to injury. The district is faced with a $5 million PER YEAR increase in medical costs and the LTA offers to pay an extra $500,000 on the condition that the low deductible low co-pay plan remains.

It’s time to cut loose from the LTA and establish a School Board run Charter School district. Such a district would have the financial and operational flexibility to meet Lakewood’s coming educational crisis.


Justine Cooper
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Location: Lakewood

Re: Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will clo

Postby Justine Cooper » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:26 am

"Any realistic analysis of Lakewood schools would show that we do not have an excellent school district. We have a district slowly descending into crisis. The district is failing students and parents on many levels The very small changes being made aren’t going to change that. To the extent that the School Board kicks the can down the road they make the situation even worse."

Bill, with all due respect, you could not be more wrong. The education my youngest two receive in Lakewood at the elementary level is far better than the education I received growing up in various areas. Besides the interactive lessons with amazing technology that couldn't have been realized back when I was in school, I have never in all my years seen a better run school.
Yes I am a cheerleader for Hayes, but only because I have never seen a better run public school. I grew up in the "traditional" direct teaching with coverage of textbooks. If you fell through the cracks, you fell through the cracks. Every child was to learn the same. My children get to grow up with caring teachers who collaborate seamlessly in every subject. So when my daugher reads two grade levels above hers, she gets to be part of a group that allows her to grow on her level. And when my son struggles with reading on grade level he gets to be pulled to bring him up to grade level without feeling embarrassed about reading with others above his level. My daughter did powerpoints in third grade. I did my first in graduate school. When I walk into Open house at Hayes, the large white board displays moving pictures of all the students working on project based learning. Smiling. Interacting.
Every single event that Hayes has been a part of, the principal Mr. Curtin attended, evenings and Saturday included. With no family here, I feel this Lakewood school is a small family. I know without a shadow of a doubt how much they care about our children as humans, not just test scores. I don't think an extended school year is necessary to produce better "results." But when the school offered extra OAA help for my son, he went for a month before school with many other children. And when they offered summer school to increase reading fluency, he went. Those are options for parents to extend their child's school year.
Only a teacher can truly know how much is poured into that "job" in the nine months. Only a teacher can truly appreciate the "breaks" in the school year so that not only students can refresh their mind, body and soul, but so that teachers can do so as well. While many teachers continue with required professional development over the summer and with lesson planning for the following school year, the ability to refesh the mind, body and soul of the teacher is an essential component to starting the school year with the energy, passion and motivation to "teach" all those little humans how to be successful in life, including morals and character building which is built into it. I want my children's teachers to start their school year with my child that way. I want to start my school year that way with my students, refreshed and full of new life and new lessons.

Will and Bill, you are both obviously intelligent and articulate and successful men. So I ask, were you a product of an extended school year, or a product of a "traditional" school year as I was, living life along the way with family holidays? At the end of the day, all of that is what has built my character. My best memories are family vacations, trips to extended family, love and laughter intermixed with my education. These are children we are discussing, not just producers.


"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive" Dalai Lama
Justine Cooper
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Re: Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will clo

Postby Justine Cooper » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:34 pm

Gary Rice wrote:My following remark is intended to be general in character and NOT directed to any one person in particular.

It's funny really.

Public education detractors historically have called for more and more accountability, and as a result, our students are being tested as never before. Schools are presently being rated primarily on those tests, and in Lakewood's case, we have achieved excellent ratings academically on the basis of those tests.

Those detractors of public education have discovered that, at least in our district, they simply have nothing to "detract" about.

Our athletic and arts programs are equally exemplary. Our students are accepted nationwide to many institutions of higher learning. Our Lakewood schools excel academically, vocationally, you name it. There is no evidence anywhere that I am remotely aware of, that would indicate that Lakewood's schools are "failing", by any sense of that word.

To the contrary, they are succeeding big time, by whatever standard you might choose to apply.

Our school staff, whether administrative, teaching, clerical, or support, all undergo ongoing reviews. Professional development, and constant updating regarding teaching skills and best practices are expected of all teaching and administrative staff. Those involved in the education of the children of Lakewood are expected to deliver educational services second to none, and this, they do.

Expensive at times? Perhaps...and worth every penny of it. Good schools cost money, but look around Lakewood's schools. There's no "fluff". These schools are all about success.

I wish that everyone in Lakewood could have been present last night at Harding's farewell concert for Mr. Brian Griebel, Harding's band director. Students from former years, parents, and hundreds of others provided a standing-room-only crowd of appreciation as the 6th, 7th, 8th grade and dance bands performed, along with Harding's award-winning Cedar Point Band. Griebel used Harding's traditional illuminated baton, a tradition started in that building nearly 60 years ago by my father, Former Harding band director Robert Rice, who had gifted his baton to Griebel years ago, in a way of "passing the torch" to another great educator. Mr. Rice was also present to support Mr. Griebel and the Harding music program. Mr. Griebel's own father Buddy Griebel, the famous jazz pianist, accompanied the jazz band. The band also did a "Danny Boy" tribute to Mr. Griebel's mother, who sat in front of the band. There was not a dry eye in the house.

Excellence in music, tradition, continuity, you name it.

That is the intangible reality that TRULY speaks about Lakewood's fine schools, that being the ongoing tradition of high expectations, blended with such human bonding and continuity. The students of Harding performed at the top of their game, as they always have. It was a positive night of nights, as would be expected ALL the time in the Lakewood Schools.

Nothing but the best. Ever.

Now, then, tomorrow, always.

Lakewood Rangers Rule.


Amen brother! The BEST memories schoolwise for my son included Ms. Rosawitz's show choir at Emerson, LONG before Glee arrived on TV! Sadly we lost her to Parma. But Dr. Hanson, whom is also retiring from Lakewood is probably the most exceptional music director in the state with the awards to prove it. When we are flying around the pearly gates one day looking down on our life, what memories will have shaped us? What experiences? Will we be thinking about Algebra or that teacher who inspired us to explore and become who we were meant to be and more, whether doctor, lawyer, teacher, artist, singer, actor...........

On a side note, if you have a child with special needs, you should note that one way that Avon Lake keeps their costs low is to hire "tutors" for Special Ed teachers on an hourly rate, new graduates with little experience and lower costs and thus have a turnover which interrupts seamless collaboration among teachers. I notice that the biggest complainers of teacher costs in Lakewood do not have children in the schools, but I ask, how qualified of a teacher would you want for your child/grandchild?


"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive" Dalai Lama
Will Brown
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Location: Lakewood

Re: Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will clo

Postby Will Brown » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:43 pm

Justine Cooper wrote:"

Will and Bill, you are both obviously intelligent and articulate and successful men. So I ask, were you a product of an extended school year, or a product of a "traditional" school year as I was, living life along the way with family holidays? At the end of the day, all of that is what has built my character. My best memories are family vacations, trips to extended family, love and laughter intermixed with my education. These are children we are discussing, not just producers.


I respond

Like most adults, I am a product of the traditional school method, although my parents had me participate in a lot of educational activities after school and during the breaks. My impression of those years, in all honesty, was of wasting a lot of time and opportunity. Had there been year-round school, or longer schooldays, I could have learned a lot more before graduation. I frankly find it difficult to understand why any concerned parent would be satisfied that we are still using that outmoded model. But then I view schooling as a place to learn, not as a place to have fun.

Further, I don't think the schools should be in the feel-good business; they should be doing all they can to improve the basic skills of the student. Lakewood does a very good, but expensive, job of teaching music; but a well educated person does not necessarily have to have learned to play the fluteaphone. There are plenty of opportunities for a student to learn music outside of school. In fact, my experience is that the faculty encourages students to take private lessons, as they don't have the time or broad skills to teach all instruments. Similarly, if you want your child to learn to dance, there are plenty of learning opportunities outside the schools. If you want your child to learn to play hockey, the public schools are not where you should look. Art? Is learning to daub and paste necessary in the schools, or is it just an opportunity to make a mess, have fun, and avoid working on reading or math? I do think the country needs vocational training for some students, but I think perhaps a better and more current method for accomplishing that might consist of some time in academic subjects, and some time outside the schools in the equivalent of an apprenticeship.

As for the faculty needing extensive time off (four months, if my math is still good) because they need to recover from stress, why are they the only occupation that needs that, especially when there doesn't appear to be a lot of stress in their work? That issue has been raised before and the only incident reported was from a retired teacher who was apparently traumatized when a student vomited in the bus! I would have them work year round with a normal vacation (oops, I may have threatened the tourism industry) and sabbaticals to retain and improve their skills. Perks, such as medical insurance, are a large component of the cost of an employee, and we already give them year-round perks. Lets throw in a little more money and have them work full-time.

Incidentally, today I read an article on franchise programs. According to this article, one of the hottest areas in franchising is in education and tutoring. Apparently there are a lot of concerned parents who feel the schools are not producing, and are paying for supplementary education for their children.


Society in every state is a blessing, but the Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil...
Justine Cooper
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Location: Lakewood

Re: Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will clo

Postby Justine Cooper » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:29 pm

Well without realizing it you made my point. Your parents supplemented your education throughout the summer as I do my children. Regardless of your opinion on music and art, I supplement mine with music lessons that I pay for, art classes to nourish their creativity and other side of the brain, baseball, hiking, swimming, etc for their "PE" and to help them live longer and stay in shape, summer reading programs, the library (my favorite place as a child), road trips around the country so they can experience what they read about and discover other cultures. None of that will ever be viewed as wasted. And I ask you why taxes or the government should be responsible for extended learning for my children when I should do that?

It sounds like your anger and disdain is more for teachers having more time off than others. I think all professions should have more time off in life by the way, but as a person who went back later in life to become an educator, I can tell you there is a huge difference from pushing numbers in a cubicle to educating children and meeting the demands of the state and new reforms. I don't even have words for your story about the vomit on the bus and stress. I didn't even mention the word "stress" but when your "work" is a number of children throughout the day whose needs you must meet above and beyond test scores, it is a different job. It is not a job, but a calling. I do not know of a teacher who leaves the school before 8 hours either or who doesn't bring work home. To compare a teacher's schedule to a students is ridiculous.

On a personal note, I think if we were on this earth to only become the producers you seem to think we should be, God would have created robots instead of human beings.


"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive" Dalai Lama
Gary Rice
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Location: Lakewood

Re: Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will clo

Postby Gary Rice » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:30 pm

I certainly do not expect to be able to change the minds of those who oppose the concept of public schools or the way that they are funded. We are all aware of the Wisconsin election being in a few days that amounts to a referendum on collective bargaining and the rights of public employees to have input in the educational arena. Indeed as we also know, the issue of collective bargaining was successfully defended recently in the Ohio election. To a large extent, that is what much of this discussion is REALLY about.

I simply reiterate my opinion that the notion that our public schools are "failing" in any way is flat-out ludicrous. There's always room for improvement, but come on.

At that point, all of this becomes less of a "discussion", and more of an ideological food fight.

The allegation that teachers and administrators somehow make "millions" with retirement packages makes no sense whatsoever with me either.

For the benefit of those who may not know, here's generally how the system works:

Teachers are required to go back to school to take more classes, often at their own expense. In exchange for that, they receive increases in salary every so many jumps in credit hours that they have taken beyond the Bachelors Degree. They also receive a modest increase in salary annually for each year that they teach. They pay into their own retirement system, and can elect to receive either a lump sum at retirement, or a monthly allotment that continues through their life, and perhaps, the life of a spouse, depending on the plan choice that they make. Their retirement income is a percentage of their salary that increases depending on years taught.

Additionally, they do negotiate contracts for salary and benefits. THAT'S the REAL sore point with some people.

Long ago, our society decided not to pay teachers very much money. The trade off was that, come retirement, there would be enough for a teacher to live on. For the first 20 years of a teaching career, teachers in many districts barely get by.

Traditionally, a retirement pension for teachers has become livable after 30 years on the job, with a better financial jump for those staying 35 or more years. Remember that for those taking a monthly income, if they die, it's gone, except for what they paid into the system. There are actuarial tables that are used. It's been a very good system for many years.

It really was not until the economy took it on the chin that any of this was an issue. Teachers normally made way below private sector workers, whether they were blue or white collar. Now, they are more competitive against some blue-collar fields, but in the white-collar world, teacher salaries are still way behind.

Do buy-outs make financial sense for a school district? Yes, if a school district is really top-heavy with salaries. Buy-outs encourage early retirement of experienced and expensive staff. You do lose experience, but the new staff can bring advantages as well as relatively low cost that can save a district REAL money in the long run.

The only time that I have been aware of a buy-out getting really expensive would be the case of a school district having to buy out an administrator's contract prematurely for whatever reason that may be.

Another point: that being the question of teacher's having summers "off". Point of fact, that's when many if not most teachers need to complete more training. As well, take a good look at the parking lots of the Lakewood Schools during the summer day, and you will see them full of cars. Many if not most teachers are indeed in their buildings preparing for next year, at no expense to the taxpayer. Their salary is computed at a daily rate that DOES NOT include the summer days. Were year-round school to be seriously considered in terms of adding time or adding days, (rather than the often-discussed splitting up of the year into 3 sessions) you would need to be prepared to pay all staff at least 25% more annually in salary and benefits, and that would become a VERY expensive proposition, which is probably why it has not been done.

I'll just add a thought here about music, sports, and the arts. Those areas, for which the Lakewood Schools are well known for excellence, can and do tap into areas of the mind that enhance, compliment, and apply learning from the content areas. Even in highly regimented academic societies, there is plenty of time allowed for these disciplines. Reading is enhanced by the language of music, which also demands an understanding of timing and fractions with notation skills. Art classes teaching point perspective illustrate the application of sublime geometric principles, and on it goes...Education is a seamless web.


Betsy Voinovich
Posts: 1261
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:53 am

Re: Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will clo

Postby Betsy Voinovich » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:26 am

Wow, this thread is rockin' and I've learned a lot so far. There is clearly a lot more to say.

This morning I feel compelled to wrassle the discussion around (if I can) to the original reason I posted it, which was to give everyone a chance to look at the specific recommendations Superintendent Patterson is proposing to the School Board. I believe they are supposed to vote on these tonight? Or at least consider them. So given what we've got, what we're in the middle of, this would be a chance to weigh in on what this looks like if anybody felt the need.

I particularly am not that happy that one of our gifted 4/5 classes has been cut, and that we've lost an incredible teacher at that level. She is moving on to teach in the gifted program in Middle School, but the loss at the elementary level is devastating, as any parent whose child has been fortunate enough to be her pupil will know. I'm not pleased about the cut that got rid of our 2/3 gifted program, in three schools, and reduced it to one third grade in one school (which happened two years ago.) I don't think the number of Lakewood kids who qualify for the program has gone down, but there are less kids in it now. So gifted took another real blow this time, one that hurts a lot for those who know about it. I understand that all the cuts hurt, the ones in programming maybe the most, for those who know what is being lost.

I'm going to post my article from the most recent LO, because it lists these cuts again. From here:http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/read/2012/05/30/reductions-proposed-by-patterson-include-closing-elementary-school

Reductions Proposed By Patterson Include Closing Elementary School

At this past Monday's School Board meeting, our Superintendent, Jeff Patterson, presented a list of cuts that altogether will save about 8 million dollars, "significantly lowering the amount of millage we will have to ask for" with the next levy.

The lists were printed out and made available to everyone at the meeting. The first number is the item cut, the next three, are dollar amounts for fiscal years 12, 13 and 14

1. Westshore Payment, $190,000 190,000 190,000
2. Textbooks 250,000 250,000 250,000
3. Technology Leases 374,000 374.000 374,000
4. Workers Compensation 600,000 600,000 200,000
5. Title 1 Carryover 0 400,000 0
6. Positions ReducedFY12 60,000 60,000 60,000
7. LTA TRIP #1(positions reduced)
0 600,000 600,000
8. Replace 7.5 FTE (Elementary positions)
0 (455,000) (455,000)
9. LTA TRIP #2 0 0 500,000
10.Addtl base freezeFY 14 0 0 989,000
11. Health Care Savings 0 324,000 324,000
12. Additional Staffing Changes
Teacher Reduction 250,000 310,000
Classified Reductions 0 31,000 61,000
Admin & non-represented staff reductions
0 275,000 332,000
13. Elementary Building Closure
0 0 400,000

TOTAL 1,474,000 2,959,000 4,195,000

Total Budget Reductions (FY2012, FY2013, FY2014) = $8,628,000

These cuts include the loss of one of our GT ("gifted and talented" teachers) and one of our 4/5 GT classrooms. It also includes the loss of licensed Media Specialists (Main librarians) at all of the schools except the high school. Our Middle Schools will lose their Family/Consumer programs, which will be replaced by math and language arts tutoring services.

The most dramatic cut was the elementary school. Which one will be closed?

Superintendent Patterson stated that it will not be one of the new or rebuilt ones which offer our students state-of-the art surroundings and technology, and run efficiently. When directly asked whether the Administration will follow the Board's decision regarding the Phase 3 School Facilities plan, Superintendent Patterson said several times that current data will be thoroughly studied to figure out what would make the most sense when projected into the next year or two. When I asked him about this later, he underlined that this reduction has to do with saving funds and is not related to Phase 3, and stressed that it must be analyzed on its own terms, with all the current data being evaluated.

What is the current data and what will the criteria be when sorting through it?

Does this work with our elementary age population? Will they fit into six buildings? What does this mean for class size?

Presumably the Administration will be sorting through operating costs, condition of the buildings, availability of adjacent schools, impact on the neighborhood(s), impact on current and future Lakewood families, among other things.

Most important to Mr. Patterson was that the announcement of which elementary school will close be made this August, because as he said, "It is very important to get the word out to families a year in advance."

Many questions will be sorted through in the coming days. Though audience members left buzzing with questions and speculation, one thing was very clear. The Administration labored long and hard over the recommendations, which as Mr. Patterson said, represented more than seven months of work, and every effort was made to truly listen to the community.


Betsy Voinovich


Amy Dreger
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:15 am

Re: Superintendent announces cuts:Elementary school will clo

Postby Amy Dreger » Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:08 am

Betsy - which gifted teacher was cut? With that class gone that will make two 4/5 gifted classes in the system, correct?



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