One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

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Bill Call
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One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

Postby Bill Call » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:37 am

Does anyone have the details?

Increasing the amount of parking just increases the demand for more parking. Why not pave over the whole park?


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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:29 am

Does anyone have the details?

Increasing the amount of parking just increases the demand for more parking. Why not pave over the whole park?[/quote]

CORRECTED!

Bill

From everything I have found, it is not an acre. It would be the outer perimeter going 1 car in.

The city is looking to expand parking. "The park is popular." explained Shawn Leininger, AICP, Director of Planning & Development, "As part of the expansion of Foster Pool we have looked at expanding the parking." No decision has been made at this time.

How often is the lot filled. Bill, you would know as well as anyone.

.


Jim O'Bryan
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"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
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Mark Kindt
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Re: One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

Postby Mark Kindt » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:53 am

My general impression now about Lakewood is that most decisions that relate to the future of the City are being made by individuals and groups that do not reside here.


Bill Call
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Re: One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

Postby Bill Call » Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:49 am

I was told that the City was considering about 150 new parking spaces. How much green space is needed to build 150 new parking spaces?

A new parking lot needs about 325 square feet per parking space. Let's say that in this case the City only needs 200 square feet of space. 200 square feet times 150 new spaces is 30,000 square feet of space. There are 43,560 square feet in an acre. 150 spaces would require 30,000 square feet or about 69% of an acre. That's assuming the additional parking would not require more drainage and access roads.

https://www.hunker.com/13425060/how-to- ... ing-spaces

How much new parking is enough? What do people do when they discover that there is no parking at Lakewood Park? They walk, ride a bike, park somewhere else or stay home. If the City adds 150 new spaces how many more people will use the park? If more people use the park is the answer: Build more parking!? At what point do we say:

Lakewood Park is Lakewood Park NOT Lakewood Parking Lot.

Lakewood Park is a real asset to the City. It is also a very popular destination. I understand the desire to make the park more accessible. Instead of paving over the park how about this:

A Lakewood summer shuttle service running from May through October. The shuttle can have stops at the new Cove Community Center, City Hall, Lakewood Library and Lakewood Park with additional stops on Madison.

How much will shuttle service cost? How much will it cost to operate? How much does it cost to buy a new electric shuttle bus?

Instead of spending money on a study for a new parking lot why not spend the money on a study for shuttle service?

Where will the money to operate the service come from? That's the easy part!

The City transferred nearly $65 million to the Three Arches Foundation and Healthy Lakewood Foundation. Those foundations could easily fund the entire operation.


Mark Kindt
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Re: One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

Postby Mark Kindt » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:20 am

I will supplement Mr. Call's post with two additional data points:

1. One hundred and twenty (120) new parking spaces are equivalent under City ordinance for the parking spaces required for four apartment buildings of thirty (30) units each.

2. Each conditional-use permit issued by the Planning Commission and granted to bars, restaurants, and building owners for the use of parking lanes has resulted in the net reduction of parking spaces in Lakewood.

The knock-on effects of these conditional-use permits seems apparent.


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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:31 am

Bill Call wrote:I was told that the City was considering about 150 new parking spaces. How much green space is needed to build 150 new parking spaces?




Lakewood Park is Lakewood Park NOT Lakewood Parking Lot.

Lakewood Park is a real asset to the City. It is also a very popular destination. I understand the desire to make the park more accessible. Instead of paving over the park how about this:

A Lakewood summer shuttle service running from May through October. The shuttle can have stops at the new Cove Community Center, City Hall, Lakewood Library and Lakewood Park with additional stops on Madison.

How much will shuttle service cost? How much will it cost to operate? How much does it cost to buy a new electric shuttle bus?

Instead of spending money on a study for a new parking lot why not spend the money on a study for shuttle service?

Where will the money to operate the service come from? That's the easy part!

The City transferred nearly $65 million to the Three Arches Foundation and Healthy Lakewood Foundation. Those foundations could easily fund the entire operation.



Bill

I heard less than 100 spots from two sources. I believe it depends on how they are laid out. aka a study.

Let's not forget two residents that wanted to run Lakewood shuttle services. One even bought a bus for the service. Both were shut down by FitzGerlad admin. As long as we are at it. One group was trying to get free WiFi for the city during the FitzGGerald Admin, that was also shut down.

The final overwhelming small thoughts of FitzGerlad/Summers was the complete lack of interest in a plan that would have made Lakewood Park better, self funding, and add $350 million in property. The Savannah Farris plan.

For those that forgot, or new to Lakewood.
http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23809&p=175122&hilit=savannah#p175122

It would have taken an investment from the city of $71,000 at the time, for the joint study with Army Corp of Engineers. Stark Enterprise thought it was too small but were interested in acquiring the rights to do the project.

As for the transfer, it was accomplished because Mayor Summers pushed through the pouring of $2.5 million in concrete without any public study. aka Solstice Steps. The Solstice Steps were opened 45 days before the election to close the hospital, that was filled with secrecy, lies, miss-truths and intimidation. All uncovered in a series of lawsuits that saw the City of Lakewood pay out over $280,000 in legal fees, and ordered to produce the documents.

Those that do not know history are forced to repeat it.

.


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
michael gill
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Re: One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

Postby michael gill » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:33 am

One problem with surface parking is that the overwhelming majority of the time, it is not used at all. Picture a shopping mall in the 80s during the first ten months of the year.

Lakewood has plenty of examples showing that people will visit attractions regardless of the proximity of parking.

I hope they don't pave more of Lakewood park.

I don't think it is productive to suggest essentially resurrecting the community shuttle, much as I think that would be good for the city. Neither do I think it is productive to bring up the Three Arches foundation, as fun as such provocation may be.

It is the park, not the parking lot. Draw a line. Let green space be green space. That's all.


Dan Alaimo
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Re: One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

Postby Dan Alaimo » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:05 am

However you slice or puree it, Lakewood Park desperately needs more parking.


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
michael gill
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Re: One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

Postby michael gill » Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:21 am

How many people get there on July 4 with currently available parking?


Bill Call
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Re: One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

Postby Bill Call » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:15 am

michael gill wrote:How many people get there on July 4 with currently available parking?


About 30,000 . Now, that's with no parking at the park and no parking on Lake near the park. If the City paved over the entire park there would be enough parking for another 5,000 people.

The City desperately needs a full service hospital.
The City desperately needs a broader tax base.
The City desperately needs a lot of things.

The City does not desperately need to pave Lakewood park.


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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:26 am

Bill Call wrote:
michael gill wrote:How many people get there on July 4 with currently available parking?


About 30,000 . Now, that's with no parking at the park and no parking on Lake near the park. If the City paved over the entire park there would be enough parking for another 5,000 people.

The City desperately needs a full service hospital.
The City desperately needs a broader tax base.
The City desperately needs a lot of things.

The City does not desperately need to pave Lakewood park.



Bill

I know you realize there is a massive difference between what is needed, what is possible, and what shows residents progress and change.

There is also a valuable concept often lost in internet discussions, Walking and chewing gum at the same time.

I have a feeling, the city, on the whole, is probably working on other things too. At least I would hope so.

To me, a lot of this goes back to the City of Lakewood has never had a clear plan, to what we are, what we need, and where it is possible to go.

They have had half-assed secret plans to strip the city of $$$$$$$$$$$.

This has been something all of us have talked about all the way back to the start of the Observer.

I would say to Nate Kelley, "Where is the plan?" He would point to a drawing on his wall. I would then point out that that was a drawing not a plan.

Are we a destination? Are we the best place to live and raise a family? Are we dedicated to drinking or learning?

.

.


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Dan Alaimo
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Re: One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

Postby Dan Alaimo » Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:28 am

Walkability has always been a big talking point in Lakewood.
Trouble is, some people are not up to it physically.

I've been a proponent of usability and usage for the parks.
Trouble is, you can't maximize either without parking.

I'm not talking "pave-over-the-park" parking, but a sensible plan for incrementally adding some spaces.

Ron Leaman proposed something like this several years ago, but I'm not sure what happened to his plan. (To my knowledge he is not on the Deck.)

And it should be part of a citywide master plan


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
Mark Kindt
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Re: One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

Postby Mark Kindt » Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:28 am

Dan Alaimo wrote:Walkability has always been a big talking point in Lakewood.
Trouble is, some people are not up to it physically.

I've been a proponent of usability and usage for the parks.
Trouble is, you can't maximize either without parking.

I'm not talking "pave-over-the-park" parking, but a sensible plan for incrementally adding some spaces.

Ron Leaman proposed something like this several years ago, but I'm not sure what happened to his plan. (To my knowledge he is not on the Deck.)

And it should be part of a citywide master plan


Frankly, the one thing that I am most afraid of seeing is the current planning going on in the Lakewood Planning Department and Planning Commission.

To the extent that there is a goal to make Lakewood Park a "destination" venue, this probably cannot be accomplished without transformations that most of us will find to be unacceptable.

While I am sure that there is some sensible and manageable plan to add additional parking; doubling the existing parking is probably not that sensible plan.

I want to leave every one with three words to contemplate about Lakewood.

"Conservation"

"Preservation"

"Renovation"


Converting green space to parking, even "environmentally friendly" parking seems to be missing the point.

Yes, there are "porous" paving technologies that would be consistent with the City's wastewater improvement planning.


Dan Alaimo
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Re: One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

Postby Dan Alaimo » Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:37 pm

I just RSVP'd for Matt Kuhns' memorial Aug 4, 6 pm at the Women's Pavilion in Lakewood Park and my first thought after that was parking, My second thought was my wife's walking limitations. Talk all the ideals you want but that park urgently needs more parking spaces, including handicapped.


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
Mark Kindt
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Re: One Acre Of Lakewood Park To Be Covered In Asphalt

Postby Mark Kindt » Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:14 am

Dan,

I am not setting up "ideals" to oppose additional parking at Lakewood Park. I am sure that there could be a sensible plan. I am still attempting to learn more about this. I am still in the dark.

To the extent that major plans exist for a pier projecting into Lake Erie or other new future expansion into/onto the Lake-front per current County regional planning, I am concerned that those "destination" features will transform a community asset into something that no longer serves its basic community purposes.

It wouldn't be the first time, would it?

I appreciate the concerns of those who need additional parking for physical needs. They can be accommodated in a sensible plan.



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