Scooter survey

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michael gill
Posts: 391
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:28 am
Location: lakewood

Scooter survey

Postby michael gill » Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:09 am

I am surprised this was not yet posted here.

Thoughts about the scooter program? Take the survey:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/Lakewood ... Pilot-2022


pj bennett
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: Scooter survey

Postby pj bennett » Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:59 pm

I took the survey, after learning about it from your post.
Thank you for the link, Michael.


michael gill
Posts: 391
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:28 am
Location: lakewood

Re: Scooter survey

Postby michael gill » Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:12 am

Thanks, PJ!

I hope they get a lot of feedback.

A lot of people have certainly talked about the scooters on social media.


Mark Kindt
Posts: 2637
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:06 am

Re: Scooter survey

Postby Mark Kindt » Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:34 am

I did too, but the survey was pretty invasive in terms of the personal identifiers it sought.


Richard Baker
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:06 am

Re: Scooter survey

Postby Richard Baker » Sat Jan 28, 2023 10:24 am

"Scooter" is not a very definitive description, but we can assume the city survey was addressing the rental “board” electric scooters. Are you aware on the market there is an electric board scooter that will do 75 mph. Additionally, there are many motor scooters that will do 80 mph and a highway motor scooter that will do 135 mph, all of which require a tag and motorcycle endorsement on your driver license.

Motorcycles no longer have the distinction of being the most dangerous two-wheel conveyance per miles ridden. The highest is rental electric scooters. A Travis County study by the American Journal for Emergency Medicine showed, “There were 160 confirmed e-scooter injuries identified by the e-scooter injury investigation, with 891,121 reported miles of e-scooter travel during the study period. This produces an injury rate estimate of 180 injuries/million VMT (MVMT)". Another national study revealed that e-bikes were second, “The 115 injuries per million e-bike rides beats out the estimated 104 injuries per million motorcycle rides, 15 injuries/million bicycle rides, and eight injuries/million passenger car rides."

In conclusion, the guy on the Harley with a headband, wife beater t-shirt, shorts and flip flops, is a safer on his motorcycle, than an electric scooter or e-bike riders.


Dan Alaimo
Posts: 2137
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:49 am

Re: Scooter survey

Postby Dan Alaimo » Sat Jan 28, 2023 10:29 pm

Does Council have this information?


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
Amy Martin
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:30 am

Re: Scooter survey

Postby Amy Martin » Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:41 am

There will be no transparency from City Hall on the results of this survey. They could come back 90% negative and we would hear "We're going to increase the number of E-Scooters and Bikes due to their popularity based on recent survey results!!"

This is typical of City Hall. Ask for opinions, ignore them, and do what you planned on doing from the start. Make the Citizenry feel like they were heard, all the while ignoring the consensus. It is total bullshit. The purpose of these surveys is NOT to actually gauge public opinion but rather make the public feel as though they have a say. It is called "behavioral economics" and is used in government and business practices alike.


Mark Kindt
Posts: 2637
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:06 am

Re: Scooter survey

Postby Mark Kindt » Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:28 am

Like Richard, I have also posted stats on e-scooter accidents here in other posts.

Last week, I witnessed an e-bicycle rider moving at high speed on the sidewalk on the south side of Madison.

I have also witnessed multiple riders on the same e-scooter on sidewalks who then "hot dog" out onto the street.


Mark Kindt
Posts: 2637
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:06 am

Re: Scooter survey

Postby Mark Kindt » Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:03 pm

The City does not need this survey.

Here are multiple links to e-scooter fatalities and accidents.

https://www.google.com/search?q=e-scoot ... e&ie=UTF-8

You choose the reference. You be the judge.


michael gill
Posts: 391
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:28 am
Location: lakewood

Re: Scooter survey

Postby michael gill » Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:09 pm

Does anyone here know if the city collects licensing fees, user fees, or taxes from placement/use of the e-scooters?

And if so, does anyone know a dollar amount collected during the trial period?


Richard Baker
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:06 am

Re: Scooter survey

Postby Richard Baker » Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:28 pm

For the record I personally have nothing against people using electric board scooters or electric assist bikes, but the risks of riding on them should be honest and published. Motorcyclist have been “victimized” by being labeled most dangerous transportation due to statics for years, yet in only eighteen states and in DC is it mandatory to wear a helmet, when 37 percent of motorcycle fatalities are head injuries. I read that 71 percent of the counties' worldwide require helmets for both the rider and passengers.

Although 6 percent of motorcycle accidents are due to vehicle rear-ending a motorcycle at stop lights, unlike most worldwide countries only one state allows lane filtering, allowing a motorcyclist to go between the lanes of cars to move to the front of the line reducing the motorcyclist risk of injury. Other drivers are responsible for about 50 percent of all motorcycle accidents in the US. The majority are caused when drivers, unless they are paying close attention, experience a psychological phenomenon called inattentional blindness, that occurs when one fails to notice a readily visible yet unexpected [motorcycle] visual stimulus in one's sight, or misjudging the distance due to motorcycle’s size and pulling out on the road in front of it.

Ride like your invisible, because sometimes you are, a fact that electric scooters riders and electric bicyclist should be made aware off.


michael gill
Posts: 391
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:28 am
Location: lakewood

Re: Scooter survey

Postby michael gill » Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:48 pm

It is always interesting to see what other cities go through on similar fronts.

"Tel Aviv's E-Scooter Transformation

"High tech has changed the face of Tel Aviv. The city is building micromobility infrastructure, like bike lanes, to support an increasing number of e-scooters and bikes on congested city streets. It's all part of a long-term plan to eventually create a car-free, pollution-free city. But as more residents turn toward car alternatives, the question of safety and regulation remains. Here's a look inside Tel Aviv's traffic transformation."

(Source: Bloomberg)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2 ... tylabdaily


Richard Baker
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:06 am

Re: Scooter survey

Postby Richard Baker » Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:22 pm

[quote="michael gill"]It is always interesting to see what other cities go through on similar fronts.

"Tel Aviv's E-Scooter Transformation

"High tech has changed the face of Tel Aviv. The city is building micromobility infrastructure, like bike lanes, to support an increasing number of e-scooters and bikes on congested city streets. It's all part of a long-term plan to eventually create a car-free, pollution-free city. But as more residents turn toward car alternatives, the question of safety and regulation remains. Here's a look inside Tel Aviv's traffic transformation."

(Source: Bloomberg)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2 ... tylabdaily[/quote]

Nice thought, but one small problem, the coldest month in Tel Aviv is January and today it's in the lower 60s degrees there. We can paint over all the bicycle lanes for six months out of the year so they won't interfere with commerce and commuters with bicycle racks on the back of their cars or SUV roofs.


michael gill
Posts: 391
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:28 am
Location: lakewood

Re: Scooter survey

Postby michael gill » Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:29 pm

That's not really an argument.

"It gets cold in Cleveland."

Come on.

Did you know people ski, and that they need snow to do it, and that they do it for fun?


Mark Kindt
Posts: 2637
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:06 am

Re: Scooter survey

Postby Mark Kindt » Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:22 pm

The January 2nd & 9th issue of The New Yorker published a lengthy essay on e-bikes in that City. It neglected almost any discussion of safety and mostly addressed availability and cost and utility and enjoyment.

As I watch e-scooters or e-bikes shoot down Detroit from my office window in January, clearly there is utility for those who choose to ride, even necessity, and probably fun during the Winter.

Unlike cars and motorcycles, personal mobility devices seem free of licensing, titling, registration, and insurance requirements. Nor do I suggest here that that should be the case.

Obviously, we will have to adapt to them with a new kind of vigilance.

Richard's point about inattention blindness speaks to me.

In many ways, I am still "blind" to those riding these scooters. I can brake for pedestrians in a cross-walk, but a scooter rider entering a cross-walk at speed will be harder to break for. Runners are much slower, even when they are in the street.

Much of this is about what we are already used to.



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