Answer To Dan...

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Jim O'Bryan
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Answer To Dan...

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:41 pm

I moved this out of the suicide thread, as it bothered a couple people to I put the question and answer here.

Dan Alaimo wrote:"The woman describe only as white, approx. 5'6", 120lbs, with brown hair and brown eyes was pronounced dead at the scene."
A very terrible thing.
Hearkening back to previous discussions with Jim, if this person were Black or some other race, would it be mentioned?


Dan

I generally only use racial descriptions when a person has not been identified, and people or police are trying to identify. They also appear as quotes from news releases and talking with people. Which brings us to our infamous Volume 10, Issue 9.

Image
Download here: http://media.lakewoodobserver.com/issue_pdfs/Observer_Vol_10_Issue_09.pdf

Not only were the police still looking for many of the perps when this was published, it was a direct quote from a witness.

Which brings us to the third way they appear, mistakes. That headline should have been in quotes, but it got through.

At the end of the days, I am human, those that help are human, but we try.

.


Jim O'Bryan
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"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

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If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
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Dan Alaimo
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Re: Answer To Dan...

Postby Dan Alaimo » Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:53 am

I brought this up because I think the way we talk about race merits more discussion. In the hyper-liberal ethos that is Lakewood, there is a tendency to say, "I don't see color/race," in an effort to drop the discussion. In other words, don't mention it. I like to think I have more self-awareness than to say or think something like that, yet I want to speak respectfully of all people.

However, I also believe we have a duty to speak precisely, especially about criminal matters where a full description of the suspect is important, maybe vital. In the headline from years ago, yeah, you f'd up by not putting it in quotes, but you are correct in noting that we all make mistakes, especially under deadline pressure. And you learned. I've been there. And I learned.

Usually when this topic comes up, it's because of a reference to a minority person or persons. But this "shoe-on-the-other-foot" moment gives us a chance to look at the topic of racial descriptions with fresh eyes. I think you were right in this case, and were also right when referring to other races in other cases. It's more a matter of communicating effectively and respectfully than walking some tightrope of political correctness.


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Answer To Dan...

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Sat Aug 21, 2021 6:51 am

Dan Alaimo wrote:I brought this up because I think the way we talk about race merits more discussion. In the hyper-liberal ethos that is Lakewood, there is a tendency to say, "I don't see color/race," in an effort to drop the discussion. In other words, don't mention it. I like to think I have more self-awareness than to say or think something like that, yet I want to speak respectfully of all people.

However, I also believe we have a duty to speak precisely, especially about criminal matters where a full description of the suspect is important, maybe vital. In the headline from years ago, yeah, you f'd up by not putting it in quotes, but you are correct in noting that we all make mistakes, especially under deadline pressure. And you learned. I've been there. And I learned.

Usually when this topic comes up, it's because of a reference to a minority person or persons. But this "shoe-on-the-other-foot" moment gives us a chance to look at the topic of racial descriptions with fresh eyes. I think you were right in this case, and were also right when referring to other races in other cases. It's more a matter of communicating effectively and respectfully than walking some tightrope of political correctness.



Dan

OK I have questions for you.

A person jumps off the bridge and you do not know his name. What should be reported?

Remember, it is also going to start leaking out in social media with ZERO control.

Do we report it? What of all the families that have loved ones not with them? Does it induce panic?

Do we report the vehicle? Color of vehicle? While if piece of the story adds clarification, it also sharpens the pain for an ever decreasing group.

Blue van. OK everyone but blue van owners can worry. Blue van with the license VR? Young man?

While I know I can never please the hatters, or the self loathers. I can please myself and that is by doing the most honest fair job I can.

.


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Dan Alaimo
Posts: 2137
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:49 am

Re: Answer To Dan...

Postby Dan Alaimo » Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:31 pm

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
Dan Alaimo wrote:I brought this up because I think the way we talk about race merits more discussion. In the hyper-liberal ethos that is Lakewood, there is a tendency to say, "I don't see color/race," in an effort to drop the discussion. In other words, don't mention it. I like to think I have more self-awareness than to say or think something like that, yet I want to speak respectfully of all people.

However, I also believe we have a duty to speak precisely, especially about criminal matters where a full description of the suspect is important, maybe vital. In the headline from years ago, yeah, you f'd up by not putting it in quotes, but you are correct in noting that we all make mistakes, especially under deadline pressure. And you learned. I've been there. And I learned.

Usually when this topic comes up, it's because of a reference to a minority person or persons. But this "shoe-on-the-other-foot" moment gives us a chance to look at the topic of racial descriptions with fresh eyes. I think you were right in this case, and were also right when referring to other races in other cases. It's more a matter of communicating effectively and respectfully than walking some tightrope of political correctness.



Dan

OK I have questions for you.

A person jumps off the bridge and you do not know his name. What should be reported? As much as journalistic ethis and decency allows.

Remember, it is also going to start leaking out in social media with no control.yes, right

Do we report it? What of all the families that have loved ones not with them? Does it induce panic?yes; use your judgement, wait till families notified for name

Do we report the vehicle? Color of vehicle? While if piece of the story adds clarification, it also sharpens the pain for an ever decreasing group. In the case of a crime and search for perps, yes, otherwise optional. Again, journalistic ethics and decency./b]

Blue van. OK everyone but blue van owners can worry. Blue van with the license VR? Young man? [b]As above


While I know I can never please the haters, or the self loathers. I can please myself and that is by doing the most honest fair jobcancan.KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! And I fixed your typo.

.


My intention was to raise the general topic, and my interest is more in identifying bad guys in criminal matters. To me, this suicide was mainly a jumping off point for discussion. Where is everybody else? (And that's another matter for you and I to talk about offline whrn I'm done moving.)

Journalistic ethics and decency should prevail.


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)

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